{"id":29240,"date":"2026-03-17T18:24:47","date_gmt":"2026-03-17T05:24:47","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/?p=29240"},"modified":"2026-04-06T06:34:35","modified_gmt":"2026-04-05T18:34:35","slug":"guinness-drinks-business","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/2026\/03\/17\/guinness-drinks-business\/","title":{"rendered":"A pint of stout, and a can of worms"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"A<\/a>
The stock image used to illustrate the article in question \u2014 taken by Eva Bronzini, 2020<\/a><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

“Guinness isn’t the highest rated stout anymore,” declared a headline in The Drinks Business<\/em><\/a>.<\/span>1<\/sup><\/a><\/span> “New data,” they said, reveals “which brand comes out on top.” I soon spotted that the source of their fresh numbers was Untappd<\/a>, the beer logging and rating app \u2014 hardly a representative sample<\/span>2<\/sup><\/a><\/span> \u2014 so I knew this wasn’t going to be rigorous<\/em>. But it’s always fun to poke around with these things, so I took a closer look. I didn’t expect things to get so weird and worrying.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

The headline immediately invites the question: was it ever<\/em> the “highest rated” stout \u2014 on Untappd, specifically? Oddly, the article never actually gets around to saying so. Some time after publication \u2014 and a few raised eyebrows on social media \u2014 the title was amended,<\/span>3<\/sup><\/a><\/span> quietly dropping that claim but proceeding otherwise as before.<\/p>\n

\"Screenshot<\/a>
You can check-in any time you like \u2014 and you never have to leave (a rating)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Guinness is certainly the\u00a0most<\/em> rated stout on the platform, with orders of magnitude more check-ins than anything else discussed in the piece.<\/span>4<\/sup><\/a><\/span> I asked Untappd if they knew of any time it had the #1 spot by average rating. They observed that since it was one of the first thousand beers added to the system, it was “highly likely” it was “top-rated in [its] category at some point” but they didn’t have any “historical ‘snapshot’ data” so there was no way to “determine if\/when this may have occurred.” Given the userbase, my money would be on it being a status held briefly and long ago (if ever) but we just don’t know.<\/p>\n

Untappd also told me they had nothing to do with the “analysis” behind the article. So I spent a few minutes with the Top Rated<\/a> section of the website, just as whoever put together this report presumably did, tried to recreate their dataset,<\/span>5<\/sup><\/a><\/span> and it looks like they’ve only included stouts from the U.K. & Ireland.<\/span>6<\/sup><\/a><\/span> TDB<\/em> is a London-based publication, so maybe skipping the American breweries that dominate the worldwide rankings<\/a> makes sense. But they don’t\u00a0say<\/em> that’s what they’re doing.<\/p>\n

There’s a similar not-quite-explicit filter at work when they claim “the analysis shows that, rather than pushing higher alcohol or novelty flavours, most of the best-rated stouts sit between 4.4% ABV and 4.9% ABV.” That’s only true of the Irish Dry Stout subcategory specifically, almost by definition<\/a> \u2014 insanely high-strength beers take the top spots for every other kind of stout, as indeed they often do across Untappd for other styles. But the article slips a little in its focus between stouts more generally and those like Guinness \u2014 much like it’s loose with the distinction between popular (rates highly) and popular (sells well), and thereby offers pretty dubious advice.<\/p>\n

Enough oddities accumulated that I wanted to ask more about the actual thinking and motivation behind the whole thing. Lengthy quotes (about 40% of the whole text) were attributed to the piece’s only interviewee, the owner of a light industrial firm somewhat adjacent to the brewing industry. Which was itself another oddity, but who am I to judge, when I do deep dives into beer awards data<\/a> and tally up relevant references in the crossword<\/a> from here on my couch? So I emailed him.<\/p>\n

\"Animated<\/a>
Same lines, fresh casting. (And ctrl-F would’ve caught that vestigial “Brazier” in the third paragraph, folks.)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

He was surprised, and frustrated. He didn’t know the article existed, was never interviewed for it or anything like it, and didn’t endorse any of the ‘insights’ bearing his name. He just “enjoy[s] a pint of the black stuff occasionally at the weekend,” like a normal person. He traced the cause to the marketing firm his company used, and “asked for it to be removed.”<\/p>\n

But\u00a0TDB<\/em> didn’t take it down. They simply switched the name on all those quotes (but missed one),<\/span>7<\/sup><\/a><\/span> re-assigning them to a different man at a different light industrial firm, also somewhat adjacent to the brewing industry. No note about an edit, no softening of the evidently misleading phrasing like “speaking to TDB<\/em>…” For completeness, I did reach out to the new puppeteered person to see what they<\/em> thought about it all, but didn’t hear back.<\/p>\n

Someone from that marketing firm \u2014\u00a0Add People<\/a>, in Manchester \u2014 did<\/em> get in touch, referenced the analysis as “our data,” and said they were “happy to answer [my] questions fully,” which was nice. But first they wanted to know if I was asking out of personal curiosity or for “any particular publication” so I explained that I might write something up here, and… then they ghosted me. That was a month ago.<\/p>\n

And while TDB<\/em> do run “partner content” branded as such<\/a>,<\/span>8<\/sup><\/a><\/span> I’ve never seen such a tag attached to the ‘Highest Rated Stouts’ piece. Add People are obviously getting paid to put the list together and fabricate the quotes but I’m unclear whether they are, in turn, paying to get their client’s name on TDB<\/em>\u2019s website \u2014 and then suggesting a backup client, when it turns out the first one isn’t happy. Honestly, I kind of hope TDB<\/em> are getting paid for the placement. This article isn’t worth the compromises otherwise, if judged solely as “content.”<\/p>\n

The following week \u2014 just as I was hearing that the original article’s main character was an unwilling ventriloquist’s dummy \u2014 TDB<\/em> ran an interview with The Kernel Brewery’s founder<\/a> by Jessica Mason, who also has the byline on the Guinness piece. It’s much more interesting, and was shared around a bit<\/a>, but I realised I was vaguely wondering if it ever happened<\/em>.<\/p>\n

TDB<\/em> were willing to fudge the idea of “speaking to” someone before, after all. That “top 26” stouts list \u2014 which gets linked to \u2014 was all but rigged to make The Kernel dominate it, and here they are featured again.\u00a0Is this all an ongoing campaign of elaborately orchestrated fiction? I mean… probably<\/em> not.<\/span>9<\/sup><\/a><\/span> But this is the corrosive problem of breaching trust and cutting corners.<\/p>\n

A lot of folks are concerned about machine-generated slop. But there are still plenty of people who go to work every day and make it by hand. We should resist both.<\/p>\n

\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

“Guinness isn’t the highest rated stout anymore,” declared a headline in The Drinks Business. “New data,” they said, reveals “which brand comes out on top.” I soon spotted that the source of their fresh numbers was Untappd, the beer logging and rating app \u2014 hardly a representative sample \u2014 so I knew this wasn’t going … Continue reading A pint of stout, and a can of worms<\/span> →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[55],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-29240","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-interesting-finds"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":89,"url":"https:\/\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/2004\/01\/10\/coopers-special-old-stout\/","url_meta":{"origin":29240,"position":0},"title":"Coopers \u2018Special Old Stout\u2019","author":"Phil","date":"January 10, 2004","format":false,"excerpt":"Four entries in, and we already find our first beer that no longer exists, as at the time of the Great Uploading in October 2010. I had to check online to make sure this actually did exist, and I wasn't just drunkenly misrecording the regular Best Extra Stout. Verbatim: Cooper's\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Actual Diary entries"","block_context":{"text":"Actual Diary entries","link":"https:\/\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/category\/diary\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Apostropher's nightmare, Coopers Special Old Stout","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/wp-content\/uploads\/Diary-1004-Coopers-Special-Old-Stout-300x206.png?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":963,"url":"https:\/\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/2010\/10\/23\/emersons-southern-clam-stout\/","url_meta":{"origin":29240,"position":1},"title":"Emerson’s ‘Southern Clam’ Stout","author":"Phil","date":"October 23, 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"This must be a pretty-damn-rare example of the Emerson's brewers following, rather than leading. You just couldn't say that this wasn't knowingly made in homage to Three Boys' ludicrously masterful Oyster Stout.1 The comparisons are as inevitable as they are apt, and the thing about Imitation's place on the Sincerity\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Actual Diary entries"","block_context":{"text":"Actual Diary entries","link":"https:\/\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/category\/diary\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Emerson's 'Southern Clam' Stout","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/wp-content\/uploads\/Emersons-Southern-Clam-Stout-225x300.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":136,"url":"https:\/\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/2004\/08\/20\/carlow-oharas-celtic-stout\/","url_meta":{"origin":29240,"position":2},"title":"Carlow \u2018O\u2019Hara\u2019s Celtic Stout\u2019","author":"Phil","date":"August 20, 2004","format":false,"excerpt":"Verbatim: O'Hara's Celtic Stout. 12oz, 4.3%, <$5, 20\/08\/04, at home. Same brewery as above: Carlow, Ireland. Good n black, but broad, tan bubbles which went wandering too soon. More like uber-dark ale, really. Won a gold at BIIA, 2000. Goes just great with Futurama. G. flinches at the coffee-ness. I\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Actual Diary entries"","block_context":{"text":"Actual Diary entries","link":"https:\/\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/category\/diary\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"O'Hara's Celtic Stout","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/wp-content\/uploads\/Diary-1014-OHaras-Celtic-Stout-300x222.png?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":123,"url":"https:\/\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/2004\/03\/29\/beamish-stout\/","url_meta":{"origin":29240,"position":3},"title":"Beamish Stout","author":"Phil","date":"March 29, 2004","format":false,"excerpt":"Verbatim: Beamish Stout. 500ml, 4.2% $4ish, 29\/3\/04, at home with massive steak. It's dark, and raining. I thought it all work together (one of those days). God bless Mr Widget. Gorgeous bubbles. Smooth, less punch than Guinness, closer to Craic*. Very good everyday stout. Uses cereals and caramel, but it's\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Actual Diary entries"","block_context":{"text":"Actual Diary entries","link":"https:\/\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/category\/diary\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Beamish Stout","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/wp-content\/uploads\/Diary-1011-Beamish-Stout-300x228.png?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":649,"url":"https:\/\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/2009\/01\/10\/oharas-celebration-stout\/","url_meta":{"origin":29240,"position":4},"title":"O’Hara’s ‘Celebration’ Stout","author":"Phil","date":"January 10, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"I'd been meaning to have this for ages, and the occasion of KT's birthday -- her being a good friend and fellow stout drinker -- provided the perfect excuse, since it's one of those beers that the brewery made for their own birthday. As if I really need an excuse.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Actual Diary entries"","block_context":{"text":"Actual Diary entries","link":"https:\/\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/category\/diary\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"O'Hara's 'Celebration' Stout","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/wp-content\/uploads\/OHaras-Celebration-Stout-225x300.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":550,"url":"https:\/\/philcook.net\/beerdiary\/2008\/11\/05\/emersons-pilsner\/","url_meta":{"origin":29240,"position":5},"title":"Emerson’s Pilsner","author":"Phil","date":"November 5, 2008","format":false,"excerpt":"Verbatim: Emerson's Pilsner. The other organic offering from Emerson's (together with the previously-noted Oatmeal Stout) so they made something of a nice pair as First Drinks for George and I, having installed ourselves early in the pub. 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